When Shaw Floors tapped Ben Liebert to replace Scott Sandlin and lead its residential division, it was a clear departure from the company’s traditional hiring practices. Shaw had the reputation of either promoting from within, moving people from one segment to another or, in some rare cases, finding talent from within the flooring industry. But Liebert is different. He comes to Shaw Floors from the appliance industry, where he amassed a wealth of experience over two decades dealing with just about every facet of the business.
FCNews publisher Steven Feldman recently sat down with Liebert to learn a bit about the new guy in town and how he plans to help flooring retailers become more successful with Shaw Floors.
Give me a few things that you would like the flooring industry to know about you.
I’ve had 21 years in the residential space—19 years in the appliance industry—and I’m a third-generation GE appliances guy. My grandmother worked on the assembly line; my father and both of my brothers worked in the factories in Louisville, Ky., near southern Indiana. First, I grew up in a blue-collar and manufacturing environment. While flooring is a different product with different complexities, there are some core values that are shared. Second, I’m from Indiana, born and raised, so Indiana Hoosier by birth but a Purdue Boilermaker by choice, where I spent my college days. Third, I’m highly competitive, highly driven—and those are a result of my upbringing being the youngest of three boys and getting my butt kicked repeatedly.
Why are you the right person to lead Shaw Residential?
I spent about 14 years at Electrolux Home Appliances. Prior to that I was at General Electric and HD Supply for a few years. At Electrolux, I had the opportunity to do many things and to do them at scale and do them with speed. I’m from the sales and marketing space. I spent about half of my career in retail and about half of it in builder segments, so I have a diverse background in both small retail and large retail home centers and buying groups as well as builder. But from 2016 to 2020, I had the opportunity to lead big P&Ls, big general management businesses. I also had the opportunity to work in R&D, innova-tion and brand development. As Tim [Baucom] and I got into this discussion about the opportunity here at Shaw, some of our ambitions for Shaw over the next five to 10 years are areas where I have spent a lot of time at Electrolux, mostly around brands, innovation, sales, customers, people, general management.
Marketing, operations, sales, manufacturing. What are your biggest strengths?
What’s most natural to me is sales, customers and relationships. That for me is the bedrock of who I am. I’m energized by people. I thrive on human connections and collaboration, which is why I find great satis-faction in the flooring industry’s focus on people and their needs.
Tell me some of your philosophies as it pertains to sales and marketing.
With sales, very simply it’s around win-win. This isn’t a zero-sum game. When we win, we win together—not at each other’s expense. It’s something we’ve been talking to a lot of our customers about during my first 40 days on the job. Learning what’s important to the retailer is a very important step for me. Anytime we get into a negotiation or when we’re having friction dialogue, I just say, ‘hey, is this a win-win? Are you winning? Are we winning?’ And sometimes you must give a win in order to get a win eventually. What’s your definition of a win? It depends on the customer, the size of the customer and what segment of the market the customer plays in. We’re going to start talking more about what it means for us to win here at Shaw. But generally, a win is value creation. When you talk about value creation, generally we’re selling to a retailer who is selling to a consumer. We want the consumer to be happy and get a win with the product and services they get from the retailer. We clearly want the retailer to win with margin, mix and the ability to depend on us. And then for us, similar things. We need value creation in our business so it’s sustainable. Those three stakeholders are at the foundation of the definition of winning. Tell me some philosophies around marketing. With marketing, the consumer is in the driver’s seat and there’s been this great acceleration here in the last five years. The pandemic put this on another level from an acceleration of a changing marketplace. The consumer is in control. The consumer starts her journey online, she’s coming into these retail outlets more educated than ever before. So, as you tie that back to branding, what’s the role of a brand? What’s the role of Shaw as we create brands in partnership with our retailers? I think that looks a lot different now than it did a decade ago. At Shaw, our mission is clear: to craft innovative and sustainable solutions that empower retailers to deliver unparalleled value to their customers. This collaborative approach ensures that our brands resonate deeply with consumers, fostering meaningful connections and driving mutual success.
This industry is different than others in that it’s almost impossible to develop a consumer brand when the retailer and that retail salesperson has the control of the sale.
All our products are sold in the trade. We’re a B2B2C company, and that’s a very import-ant part of the journey; however, consumer dynamics are changing. The market is changing. That doesn’t mean you abandon what’s worked for decades. The approach we’re going to take is how can we help our retailers? How can we arm them to close a consumer when she comes in the front door? How can we arm them with innovation that the consumer doesn’t know about? Like appliances, you’re only in the market every decade, so you don’t know what’s out there. And the second part is flooring can be a complex, confusing purchase for the consumer. I purchased flooring about a year ago and was overwhelmed because of its complexities. I think the manufacturer has to make it simple to do business with the retailer—and simple for the retailer to work with the consumer.
Any similarities between the appliance business and flooring business?
There are more similarities than differences. In many instances, the consumer can do all the research online. She can buy online in some instances, she can shop at home centers, she can shop at local retailers or she can shop through a trade or builder. All those things are true in the appliance business. So the access to the products are very similar. We manufacture things, we source things, we bring things in that we don’t build here. That’s very similar to the appliance business. The supply chain is very similar. Service, dependability and trust are at the foundation.
What attracted you to this position?
I wasn’t looking. And when this opportunity found me, I wasn’t sure I was going to pursue it. But I decided it’s free to listen. I told the recruiter the values had to be there. We all spend so much time at work, so it needed to be close to or connected to the values I have personally. I like a people-centered environment. I like an environment where you can come to work in the morning and actually make something happen. I like this entrepreneurial spirit. Once you meet the people here, you immediately understand the culture of Shaw and what’s important from a values perspective. Human-centered, customer-centered— those are things that had to be table stakes or foundation before I would even start talking about whether this was the right role for me. And very early on in that process, it was clear those things are important here.
After about 40 days, give me your initial thoughts on Shaw. What have you identified as this company’s strengths?
First and foremost, Shaw exudes a genuine commitment to humanity. Interacting with Shaw employees reveals their remarkable warmth and hospitality. The fact that individuals have dedicated 30 to 40 years of their lives to Shaw speaks volumes about the company culture. This longevity suggests that Shaw fosters an environment where people find fulfillment, ample opportunities for growth and the chance to engage in exciting en-deavors. Shaw’s dedication to its cus-tomers stands out. During my initial 30 days in the field, I consistently heard praise from our customers. Many have attested that Shaw representatives rank among the best in the industry, while others boast enduring relationships spanning 50 years. These legacy connections underscore the deep trust cultivated by Shaw over time. Enhancing our partnerships with retailers represents a significant opportunity for further improvement, ensuring that these valuable relationships continue to thrive.
Have you identified any areas that you feel need improvement?
I wouldn’t say improvement. I think coming out of the pandemic, it’s about getting back to the basics. Merchandising, training, selling and talking to our customers about their goals and aspirations so we can match our goals and aspirations to theirs. Those are basic things that we did a lot before 2020. And on top of that, one thing I’m excited about is accelerating this growth mindset. We are going to win together. We are going to grow together.
How have you spent your first 40 days at Shaw?
On the road. I’ve been living in a hotel for the first 40 days. I wanted to hit the ground running, roll up the sleeves, learn and ask a lot of questions. I have a period where I’m allowed to ask some dumb questions and I’ve been taking advantage of that. But most importantly, my time is spent in front of our team and in front of customers. That was by design. And as soon as the dust settles, I’m going to hit the road again. I want to go back and go deeper with every customer who invited me to spend some time with them, because this outside-in perspective is really important. We’re not going to solve all the problems sitting here in Dalton. We have to get out in front of the customers and really understand what they need us to be. We are in it together.
How can you help make Shaw a better partner for retailers?
I am very much a people person. It starts with that. There’s an opportunity to bring Shaw closer to our customers. I want people to know they can call me any time of day, weekend or night because we’re going to be part of their business in a big way. I’ve built brands, I’ve built factories. I’ve spent four years bringing innovation to market. I spent a decade in builder sales and a decade in retail sales. I don’t have all the answers, but I’ve got a lot of experiences from a parallel industry. As we look at what the next five to 10 years look like for Shaw, I’m going to bring some different experience to this industry. I think the appliance industry, in general, was a little further down the path in talking about consumer brands, talking about innovation, talking about value creation. And that’s not to say it’s a more advanced industry. Where I see flooring going is perhaps where appliances started to go in the middle of 2015-16.
How have you interacted with the customer in your past life? What’s your secret sauce?
I want to understand their business. I want to be integrated. I want to know them, and I want them to know me and know they can call me and that I am here to help them in any way I can. To have a personal relationship with these people outside of work is important. It’s a relationship business, plain and simple.
How does Shaw differentiate itself from the other big companies in this industry?
I’ll give you my 40-day answer. We’re going to be the best partner. We’re going to win that battle. It starts with our customers, the trade. Then we’re going to have breadth of product, all the segments that we need to be in so the customer has selection, but I want to have fewer and more meaningful options. That will help our retailers from a simplicity standpoint. Then we can differentiate through service. And then we’re going to continue to innovate. Because we are leaders in this industry, we must continue to bring greater value to our industry, because what we do is important in the life of the consumer.
